It seems clear that whether or not you view Susan Pevensie as a victim or a fool, chances are you don’t take a middle-ground approach — not when she’s been alternately called a manifestation of author C.S. Lewis’s misogynic beliefs, and a representation of the Narnian Judas (as in, you know, THE Biblical traitor).
But however you view Susan’s ultimate exclusion from Aslan’s Country (which we’ll just go ahead and call heaven from here on out) — whether you stand with author Philip Pullman and say it’s because of sexist reasons (”She’s interested in nothing now-a-days except nylons and lipstick and invitations”) or whether you side with close readers and more mainstream scholars, who say it’s because she was in too much of a hurry to adopt a materialistic mentality (”She’s always a jolly sight too keen on being grown up.”) — you’re going to wind up with a headache after watching “Prince Caspian.”
That’s because the new movie posits both.
Susan, who we won’t see again in any Narnia films, is still the last one to accept and see Aslan, she’s still maternal and adult. But she’s also involved in a budding romance with Prince Caspian, a non-canonical addition that the filmmakers added to the screenplay.
(Click here to read about how the filmmakers and stars defended that choice.)
Whether or not you as a fan agree with the choice, however, is less interesting to me than whether or not you think it colors your perceptions of Susan. If you hadn’t read the novels, would the romance make you side more with one side or the other by the time we get to “Last Battle”? Does Susan, in your mind, ever get into Heaven? (Lewis himself claimed before his death that her story wasn’t done).
And, finally, what do you make of her ultimate tragedy? Is she a victim or a fool? Sound off below.
Susan does end up in Heaven, it's just that it's the Earth Heaven rather than the Narnia one. Dsm is right in saying it's a choice of worlds she's made. Her polemical role for Lewis is in encouraging kids who read the book not to grow up too fast, and of course this kiss scene is totally contrary to that, since it's tacit approval of growing up fast.
As for Caspian, it doesn't fit with him at all. He has a wife in his future, who dies tragically. That's a big part of the motivation behind The Silver Chair, and it's cheapened by him getting hot for Susan.
What's he going to be doing in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader? Asking Lucy, "So where's that hot sister of yours?" "Oh, she grew up too fast and stopped believing in Narnia. So she now thinks you were a sexual fantasy and has no feelings for you at all" "Well... I'm totally devastated, but at the same time, you're looking sexy. How about some on-board romance, before I get married to Ramandu's daughter? Got to sow my oats, you know!"
Basically it's cheap Hollywood bullsh*t that totally undermines the integrity of the characters and the story.
Susan is not "left behind", because, if you remember, if she had been with the others at Prof. Cornelius's house, belonging to those who believe in Narnia and follow Aslan, then she would have been on the train platform, and would not have been left. This was her decision.
Susan does not play a traitor- or Judas, as you call her- but the sad represenation of reality for those who choose to forget what they know to be true, in favour of what is tangible and real right now. It is this perception that makes Susan lose out. She is not evil, and the rest are good. She has been misguided, and has forgotten, but it was her own choice. CS Lewis was slightly sexist- but not in this area of literature. In fact, he was spot on. Our fascination with the here and now limits our ability to see beyond our eyesight, into "Narnia" or "Aslan's Country."
And as to the relationship- CS Lewis was writing for children, which is why none is mentioned, but I don't see a problem. I think it will be interesting, but if they try to make too much of it, pumpin the hottie prince up for his looks rather than integrity, and all those good Narnian values, this is a cheap shot at trying to get more people in seats. If not, then it should be fine.
That's not an age where romance is impossible or odd, but also not an age where the director's arguement that it was unnatural that they didn't express attraction makes much sense. I agree with Rocky and Rach that it's a cheap movie-selling tactic.
Susan always seemed silly to me while I was growing up, but since I've re-read the books as an adult, I do think that Susan represents a lot of what C.S. Lewis had trouble dealing with in his ideas of the female gender. He was a bachelor for so much of his life and his wife died so soon after they married that I don't think he ever really thought much of women in general. I do think he was sexist although a wonderful thinker and writer.
or else
but someone should write a sequel describing wat happened to susan after the last battle its too sad to leave her like that without a happy ending
and dont make it like the problam with susan , it was WAY too adult make it for the same age range as c.s lewis's masterpieces...
please!!
Then, she is separated from everyone else who knows Narnia for a time. Edmund and Lucy go to the Scrubbs and Peter studies with Professor Kirke, while Susan goes to America with her parents. Narnia seems more like a dream every day, and she has no one to talk to about it. To cope with her grief, she denies what she knows to be true.
But she can't deny it forever. I believe Susan does make it to Aslan's Country. The loss of her entire family would shake her to the core and open her eyes. And if Aslan went to such lengths to rescue Edmund, Eustace, and others, would he do any less for Susan?
We are told whether Susan turns back to "what was really important" or not. If you read The Last Battle very carefully, the reason she is not there is NOT because she is permanently excluded. It is because she was not in the accident (in our world) which sent everyone else to Heaven. The "friends of Narnia" were going to a meeting to talk about their Narnia experiences, and she was more interested in her social life than the stories of Narnia. If I were to write an eighth story (which probably should be left unwritten) I would start it with the funeral of her siblings, and follow her return to the things of Aslan (Christ). Maybe if Last Battle is made into a move, they could end it with the funeral, and Susan asking the priest if she could talk with him. That's what I'd like to see, anyway.
As far as the Susan/Caspian thing--I think it was appropriate and well done.
As for Susan and Caspian, having seen the movie I think it does no harm to the book. I actually really liked the addition. It does make sense, and one thing that Lewis also didn't understand was romance. All two of the canon romances are very abrupt. Despite the fact that Caspian seems to have found his soul mate in Lucy, he sees Ramandu's daughter, and is essentially like "hubba hubba." I love the Chronicles dearly, but I certainly don't think that Lewis was a perfect writer. However, one thing I like is that he leaves room for us to imagine our own stories about Narnia, to color in the details. The romance between Caspian and Susan is exactly that. Besides which, I don't see what's so terrible about romance. The relationship between Caspian and Susan was lovely because it was so innocent--there was nothing tawdry about it, and since when has romance become a horrible thing?
Furthermore, I'm a big believer in the idea that it's not just the author's intent which makes a story, but the reader's interpretation. What the reader sees is just as valid as what the author writes, and so if Lewis didn't intend for certain things to be in his books but a reader sees them anyway, as long as those ideas don't directly contradict what's already in the books it's a valid interpretation. Imo.
Even the women in my family saw she's all grown up and think they are sizzling and a perfect fit together.
I was so depress that this two could not be together and the audiences the night I saw the movie were all chanting " KISS KISS KISS".
The movie got it right and it was heartbreakingly romantic.
Its a Disney trademark so it like a copout that they didnt have a shot of love and happiness.
That kiss was so disrespectful to the spirit of the books and the message that Lewis wanted to convey: That old values are worth adhering to at any cost.
I agree with Andrew. Why should Susan and Caspian have some sort of 'thing'. And really, It's not like it was that big of a plot in the first place was it? And in my opinion, it made the movie better, it definatly brought a tear to my eye.
"They're in their adolescence," Barnes added. "People shouldn't be embarrassed or upset about it because it's not on Page 79 of the book." - Ben Barnes
Now, Ben there is ALSO right. We as Narnia fans shouldn't make such a huge thing out of something like this. I mean, think about it, honestly now, why shouldn't Caspian have a crush, or vise versa? After all they're only human.
I'd like to finish my argument off here with another Andrew quote:
"Susan's story is that it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all."
I echo the song lyrics of Regina Spektor. Its so suits Caspian and Susan and how many audiences feel. "I'll come back...you'll just call me....no need to say goodbye".
I tried to pretend Im not crying in the theatre because my brothers will bully me but it just tugged at my heartstrings because this changes is indeed way better than the book. I want Susan to be happy and now Im having a switcheero feeling wanting them together. I want Caspian marrying Susan instead of his future wife. I dont even feel like watching the next installments with M.I.A. Susan. Major kudos to TPTB and I heart what Adamson,Barnes and Popplewell said.
i guess it wasnt that bad and the reason i didnt like it was because it shows the first signs of what will inevitably happen to susan , and i hate that becauase i loved susan in the books and i loved her on screen (anna popplewell was THE BEST CHOICE) and seeing anna popplewell onscreen , so innocent and pure really capturing susan (on and off stage) gave me hope that maybe she could be saved.
oh, im 15 by the way so im a teen too J.S
p.s "the problem with susan" is disgusting and ruins all that is right with the chronicles of narnia (aslans and the white whitch killing susan and lucy then getting it on)
i seriously wanted to destroy the monitor and projectile vomit into a waste paper basket.
thanx for all your opinions earlier, they opened my eyes. =]
sorry
=[
ben
my friend (james stewart : J.S)
was talking to me
but i still want him to write another one,
pehaps if i go to "aslans county" i will ask him
p.s i meant H.J not J.S sorry
sorry
please
thanx
ben =]
Youtube has some clips of the kiss already and its generating lots of love and lots of hits.
the said part in the book i think is that in the end you don't know what happens to susan. that's sooooo sad....
:(
The book didnt mesh well with me because its character assasination on my heroine Susan.
Now I wish from the bottom of my heart the filmmakers rethink about Susan because I dont just want her missing in action just like that.
I know Caspian marries Ramundu's daughter but the movie makes me so attached to Susan and Caspian instead.They must find a way to bring them together.
(im looking at you katie hart!!)
please even if you dont publish it write the eighth book and send it to me (and probably every1 in this forum will want a copy, your ideas are great an we all want a bit of closure for susan (pehaps another way of getting to aslans county and metting her family)
i know its alot to ask but please save my email, i dont check it that often but in a year or so when you finished PLEASE SEND ME A COPY!!
if its the bomb maybe think about publishing it?
that would be the perfect end to susans story, maybe by leaving the story open-ended C.C Lewis INTENDED for other writers to have a go at susan's conclusion
i am forever grateful if you do.
ben jenkins (narnian)
>=[
In my universe since Caspin's wife will die so its Susan and him who will
get their chance of love and eternal bliss.
=[
but if they make it like that i would LOVE IT! even if they had to make a pretty new story.
In some ways, I must admit it annoys me a bit that they really have to put that sub-plot of romance between the two as this will feel like deceiving the viewers (especially those who doesn't know the story) into thinking that they really have ever that kind of romance.
I find it funny (even agreeing a bit) regarding Rocky's comments here. Really "What’s he (Caspian) going to be doing in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader?". Really, I hope the filmmakers took note of that before including the subplot of Caspian and Susan. Yet, as i said, nonetheless the romance did brought warmth to the movie.
Don't get me wrong. Watching their stolen glances with each other during the movie does make my heart melt and start rooting for the two to really end up together. But that's just it, it is not in the books.
I wish if ever Ms.Katie Hart has the go-signal by CS Lewis partners or relatives for that matter to write a sequel, I hope she will make the character of Susan really happy in the end - in Prince Caspian's arms and meeting her family at last in Aslan Country...It is just too bad that CS. LEwis makes the story of Susan's character hanging (though somewhat I understand the point he's driving at for the young readers). But, then again, I think the young readers would always love happy endings. Be that as it may, he should have included Susan with her family joining Aslan in heaven.
As for the movie, since they started the sub-plot of Prince Caspian-Susan brief romance, and since we know that we wouldn't see Susan again in the "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader", I wish the filmmakers include in the script: Prince Caspian asking Lucy and Edmund AT LEAST how's their sister, so that there will be some kind of continuity of the story left from the Prince Caspian movie. Showing that Prince Caspian DID thought of her after they parted...
but change the names (but tell us wwhich name represents who) and call it "book eight - susan"
but dont actually call anyone by the names we no them by (to protect against lawsuits) this is like--- A GREAT IDEA!! stop talking, start writing
please do it , we'll all back you up and say oh yeah we had a brainstorm itsa COMPLETELY original idea"....if anyone asks
marie= susan
john=edmund
james=peter
claire=lucy
ect. like that
go on i will spend forever trying to convince you.
ben (narnian)
you could make millions. =]
DO IT!! (please?)
everyone else will want you to (wont you guys/girls??)
pouring on the pier pressure!!
Just as another point, I keep hearing this all over the place and it's irritating the crap out of me. Caspian is *not* younger than Susan in the books. He's *older* because in the chapter "Sorcery and Sudden Vengeance" when Peter and Edmund burst in, Peter notices a werewolf leaping on a a boy "about his own age." Those who think Caspian is younger have obviously watched the BBC series, but that wasn't exactly the pinnacle of accuracy.
And lastly, about a simple *kiss* being totally against C.S. Lewis' morals--calm yourselves people. Lewis was no puritan. Even if he didn't know how to write romance, he certainly acknowledged its existence, and one could go so far as to say that Caspian and Ramandu's Daughter actually flirt in the end of Voyage of the Dawn Treader, to say nothing of Aravis and Shasta (Cor's) banter, which continues until the end of The Horse and His Boy, when they marry. Ergo a sweet, very romantic kiss between Caspian and Susan does not degrade the Chronicles in any way.
very sad...
i really hope the producers of the movies (if they make a movie for the last battle) would make a makes-sense-and-is-very-good movie where susan meets her family again AND caspian and lives happily ever after...
that'd be nice....
I really hope so!
it's such a good song...
and ill keep my hopes up for caspian and susan getting back together!!!
let's keep our fingers crossed!!!
Did you see the eye sex and pure love and lust with the two? Poor them. Hurry with the Disney version for Susan and Caspian. C.S.Lewis who????
I want the Susan and Caspian scenes on the DVD the one Ben Barnes is talking about.